Amitabh Dube on Unbossed Culture, Leadership and Innovation

Balbir Singh: 00:00

I am Balbir Singh, CEO of Great Place to Work in India. And today I have the honor of welcoming Mr. Amitabh Dube, Country President and Managing Director Novartis India. He has been in leading positions with Novartis in India for close to 16 years now. And really, really looking forward to this conversation with Mr. Amitabh and sharing all of these insights and wisdom with our viewers.

Balbir Singh: 00:34

Before we get started, you know, and this is something I ask all of my all of the people that I you know do interviews with, is walk us through your career journey. Walk us through some of the things that shaped you, who you are, a leader you are today, and the organization that you have built. So let’s get started with your career journey first.

Amitabh Dube: 00:55

To start my education there. We were from an academic family, uh, Balbir. And for me to move into pharmaceutical was not a choice. It was driven by purpose, which was basically to make an impact on human lives. I wanted to go into medicine, but that was not the path which was uh meant for me. So after quite a few attempts, which I did not get through, I decided to do my postgraduation in biochemistry, which was another way of entering into the scientific uh uh domain. And then I was fortunate to get a role in uh Roche, which was coming in, and they were launching some of their biotech products in the areas of oncology and uh and uh uh hepatitis. And the moment I started uh uh uh my first month, I was driven by the impact some of these products brought to the human lives, especially in treatment of cancer. And that purpose started my long journey in the pharmaceuticals.

Amitabh Dubey: 02:06

It’s been 32 years now, and when I look back, I I really, really uh adore every year of learning, and I’ve also adored the way the human life has been impacted by the change. Um, I mean, I started early in 1994, um, and I just want to give an example. There was a drug which was there to uh for treatment of uh uh chronic myeloid leukemia, and the success rate was only 5%. 

Amitabh Dubey: 02:33

Today, in almost 32 years, we are talking like uh with uh chronic myeloid leukemia being uh more of a chronic disease than a life-threatening disease. And the treatment paradigm has changed because of the evolution of science, evolution of treatments. I have been fortunate to work across various uh uh geographies, various leadership roles, various domains of uh uh sales, marketing, corporate affairs, regulatory, distribution across uh um regional marketing, countries like Vietnam, which I love uh basically my stint there, and as a country president in um in India. And what has driven me has always been uh uh purpose, uh people, and uh curiosity. Um I’ve been very curious right from the beginning, and that’s why if you look at it, I’ve been asking, I will ask a lot of questions. I will I’m very curious about how science is going to evolve over a period of time, how do people work, what motivates them? And uh my leadership has always been driven by an element of trust. I try to work by building trust, empowering teams, because when you build trust and you empower teams, magic happens. Magic happens. Magic doesn’t happen when the organization works in silos. Magic happens when you empower teams to work, when you build up a trust in the uh uh in the team, when there is a huge amount of curiosity in the team to unlock newer ways of working, then the organization starts flourishing. And that’s what has been my my leadership uh uh uh mantra for quite a few years.

Balbir Singh: 04:04

Great. Actually, Amitabh, we have touched on multiple things in that answer, curiosity. Uh that’s what how you defines you, inspiration, trust. So tell me, you have been uh with Novartis for almost 16 years now, right? And you started with Rosh 32 years, so I’m saying 16 plus 16. Uh, what is that moment that you decided this is where you want to build your legacy? What’s it about Novartis culture, you know, that you really, really uh take inspiration from? And where do you think you can could make a difference when you joined? And what’s your inspiration today?

Amitabh Dube: 04:41

So when you look at uh Balbir Novartis culture, Novartis has a very uh um uh uh strong cultural background. We have a culture which is unboss, curious, inspired, and all this is to do business with integrity. When you talk about uh uh being curious, and I said this about uh earlier also, being curious really unlocks the potential of people. We are in an area of innovating science. If you’re not going to be curious enough, the way we the medicine is going to evolve, the way we are going to work, the evolution and innovation in science is going to get uh stalled. So our our whole DNA is about being curious about the way we work, about being curious about the way science innovates. And that has been one of the fueling factors of the organizations uh moving forward. We are also inspired by our purpose when you look at it. Inspired by our purpose of reimagining medicine to uh uh improve and extend people’s uh life. And right from the beginning, when you look at our innovation in the areas of cardiovascular, in the areas of oncology, we’ve always been looking at how we can bend the curve of life, how can we extend the quality of life of people uh uh who are impacted by these diseases. We have had multiple examples which have changed the trajectory, whether in cardiovascular disease or in the in oncology. And in India, these are some of the diseases which impact younger population, bigger population, and we’ve got a huge amount of uh uh uh work to do, and that is the purpose which keeps inspiring us. And the third element for us is also about unbossed uh uh uh uh culture. And unbossed culture basically means having trust in what people do and empowering people to that we trust you to what you’re doing. Empowering with accountability is something that the organization really promotes uh uh uh uh strongly. So the culture of being unbossed, a culture of being uh uh uh inspired, a culture of being curious is something which drives the DNA of the Novartis as an organization. And this has always, always, always attracted me significantly towards this organization. But based on all of this, one fundamental factor remains is that we do everything with being with integrity. That means we are doing things which are right for our stakeholders, right for patients, right for Novartis itself, right for uh uh uh uh the society. And there is no um relativity in integrity. You cannot say I’m 99% uh uh uh uh compliant. Either you are 100% compliant or you are non-compliant. And that is the philosophy which I follow, that you have to be 100% compliant in what you do. You cannot follow a relativity with regards to integrity. Integrity has to be the hardcore fundamental of our uh uh culture. So these are some of the things that have always attracted me to Novartis, apart from the pipeline, apart from the impact that Novartis is making in the lives of uh uh uh people, the culture has been the fundamental element for me to be in Novartis for the last 15 years.

Balbir Singh: 07:48

So, again, um you know you talked about integrated, it’s never 99.9%. It’s black and white, you know, it’s either one or zero, it’s as binary as it could be. And uh then you mentioned you know bending the curve of life. That’s making such a powerful statement and uh such an impactful statement. You have 9,000 plus associates in Novartis uh in India. Uh so how do you get them along with this journey? How do you inspire them? You know, some of these things like you know, having a culture that’s unbossed, but how do people live this culture? How do leaders inspire associates across you have development hubs, you have RD centers, you have commercial operations, like it’s it’s a proper conglomerate, right? In within those 9,000 associates. So tell us, you know, through your journey, through your experiences, how do you make this happen for each of those 9,000 associates?

Amitabh Dube: 08:44

It’s

Amitabh Dube: 08:44

A very interesting uh uh um question, Balbir. Um when I came back to India from Vietnam, right? We were undergoing through a significant transformation at that time in the company. Um we were trying to uh uh integrate different businesses, we were trying to move Novartis from being a very powerful uh uh uh pharma conglomerate into a pure play innovative medicines company, which is agile, which is fast decision-making, which is focusing on bringing innovation, which is trying to become much more uh focused in driving shareholder return. And that also involved a lot of uh change in the organization. Uh uh but while doing that, one thing which fundamentally came across was what binds our people together. And we have been fortunate in India that we have got a significant amount of presence, and the presence is right from research to development to commercialization and to operation. So we have the full continuum of a pharma industry existing in India. And one thing which keeps binding all of us together is our purpose. When you look at the purpose right from research to development to even operations or to commercialization, we all are working to reimagine medicine and to bring products or medicines which are from labs to bedside for patients. So we call it molecules to medicines which are going to extend and impact people’s lives. So the whole purpose of the organization is something which binds various people. So when you go to people in research, they are working on molecules which are going to impact and extend people’s lives. When you’re coming to development, they are working on molecules which are going to be translated into medicines to impact patients’ lives. When you look at commercializations, we are working out in the doctor’s chamber to make those medicines move to impact and improve uh uh uh and extend uh patients’ lives. So, overall, the purpose of the organization continues to bind everybody. The second part when we went through a significant amount of change was to provide clarity because change has never been easy for people, correct? And change creates a lot of uncertainty, it raises a lot of questions, and at the end, people ask, What’s in for me? Binding culture and providing clarity to all the employees across the domain was something fundamental which kept us together, which kept us binded to our purpose, and which continues to grow the company. Correct. So that has been the fundamental over the last uh uh uh three to four years. We have been driving the change in the organization as well as building the culture across the continuum. And we call that as the the research, development, commercialization, and operation continuum.

Balbir Singh: 11:22

Yeah.

Balbir Singh: 11:22

Again, I’ll pick up uh what you just said, you know, uh molecule to medicine. Indian pharma uh has been known for more generic uh medicines. How do you see that changing in India and how what is the role that Novartis is playing in changing that vision, you know, uh view of Indian pharma from just a generic provider to some organizations that can do RD, organizations that can develop new molecules for medicines that can be curing and can be used across the world? So, what is the role that Novartis is playing? And what I want to know from you, uh, of course, because I’m not a technical person, so that’s definitely a lot of RD happening. And how do you make sure that that’s imbibed in the culture of the organization?

Amitabh Dube: 12:07

Wonderful. Again, uh uh excellent question. Let me divide this question into two parts, and I’ll answer first what do I see in from an Indian pharma perspective, and then I’ll say what how no artists is uh uh uh uh working together. So I think that Indian pharma has been extremely, extremely uh uh uh uh at a place and it’s an inflection point where we need to move from volume-driven country to a value-driven country, correct? And that is something that everybody recognizes today. We are at a very good place because we have got a scale of talents, we are building up an ecosystem, we have got uh uh uh best infrastructure available, we have got great doctors to treat. So the ecosystem, Balbir, is today sufficiently supporting. What we need is that how do we start valuing innovation? How do we start creating an ecosystem that that uh uh uh flourishes innovation while also being the generic powerhouse of the it’s not innovation or gender, it is gonna be innovation and gender which is gonna flourish to it. And how do we make India a powerhouse from for innovation is something that is going to be extremely, extremely important. And I believe that that’s something which we have already started from. When you look at the way the pharma industry today, the local pharma industry, about $30 billion, it’s gonna be roughly about 50 billion plus by 2030. So if you’ve got a significant amount of growth coming in, it is how do we get the latest innovative therapies uh into the country? How do we get create a culture of innovation into the country? And how do we have access to these innovative treatments to patients while maintaining being the uh global powerhouse for uh uh generic medicine? So it’s it’s how do we balance between the two and how do we continue to grow both the elements together? And for that, that uh as far as Novartis is concerned, I come to the second part of the of the uh question. Uh we have we have been almost now 75 years in this country, and we have been bringing innovation across uh uh all the spectrums that we work in. Today we are a pure play innovative company where we bring in innovations every year in the area of cardiovascular oncology, uh, immunology, and neurosciences. And we are going to be specializing in these hardcore four areas to continue to bring in innovation into the country. The second area where we continuously work into the entire uh uh is to collaborate with various stakeholders. How do we shape the policy to have an innovative ecosystem? And that’s extremely important. And we have to partner with various stakeholders, governments to start building up an ecosystem where innovation flourishes. And that’s where Novartis is going to partner with various industry association, government stakeholders, that over a period of time we are able to have India also as a global powerhouse for research and development. Does the policy support us? How can we ensure that we work on? Third, we also do and help in the ecosystem that is the hospital ecosystem building. We roughly do almost uh 400 clinical trials in India with more than 3,000 patients uh uh uh who are part of these clinical trials. We tend to uh to bring in 10 to 12 new clinical trials every year. And at any given point of time, we have roughly 50 clinical, global clinical trials running in the country. So when you look at it, there is an inflow of new therapies coming in. There’s an inflow of innovation coming in. It’s how do we ensure that we build up an ecosystem of uh uh uh research and development, uh respecting innovation in the in the country and also providing access to these innovations to patients in the country. Because any innovation is not going to be uh uh uh powerful till it doesn’t reach the patients, uh uh uh and it’s not going to be impactful till it doesn’t reach the patient. So I’m I’m super optimistic about the Indian pharma industry going forward. I’m super optimistic about the ecosystem uh uh developing, and I and I believe that both the Indian pharma industries and the MNC, multinational pharma industry, both would have a significant role to play developing the innovative ecosystem as well as the local ecosystem.

Balbir Singh: 16:22

Okay. So you’re saying we need to move up the value chain without letting go of our mood, which is being a production powerhouse for generics and but keep moving up the value chain. Uh so when you try to do that, uh specially for can I just add something?

Amitabh Dube: 16:39

Yeah, yeah, please. So, what what I meant to say basically is today we are the manufacturing powerhouse of the world. What I say is that we need to move to innovate, develop, and manufacture in India. So that is the element we need to we need to build build in. So we are called the pharmacy of the world. How can we move into being the research, development, and the pharmacy of the world?

Balbir Singh: 16:59

Got it, got it. Makes

Balbir Singh: 17:00

Sense. So for a global organization such as yours, uh Amitabh, how do you connect that local culture with the global vision uh for your associates? Like you, you know, how does your associate connect with the global purpose of Novartis? Even though there are some things like you do clinical trials in India, a lot of the things that you do in Novartis does not, it’s not available to you know uh other pharma companies in India. But how does an associate sitting here connect with the BSL, Switzerland, or global culture?

Amitabh Dube: 17:30

So very, very interesting question again. Uh and and my belief has always been, and and I did answer a bit of this, but I’ll again come back, is that whether you are in New Jersey or Basel campus or a Hyderabad campus, the one string that attaches their associates is going to be again our purpose. Correct. And Novartis is the purpose of reimagining medicine to extend and uh uh improve patients’ life is something which continues to build up across the uh uh uh uh ecosystem. So an associate working in Hyderabad versus an associate working in um in uh uh Switzerland or our Basel campus or a associate working in our Cambridge campus, in when you look at it, the purpose connects it, connects them. And then is the is the strong uh uh uh uh there is a localization everywhere. There is a localization element uh in Hyderabad, whereas that you are working for a global uh uh uh uh uh company or come working for a global brand that is coming out, you are a part of the development uh of an organization, and through various clinical trials, as I said, you are adding to that global uh um ecosystem. But for every molecule that we work in, how are we as a local company or a local country attached to the outcome that is happening at a global level is something that we are very much part of it. So our purpose attaches people across, and then each work that we do, how is it attached to the bigger picture in the organization? Is something which keeps us binding together from a culture perspective.

Balbir Singh: 19:06

I think uh very relevant and connecting with the purpose is our research shows that it’s number one requirement for any millennial to join a workforce. You know, they really need to know what’s the purpose, what is it that I’m solving? How does my work contribute to the overall purpose of the organization? So let me ask you this other question. You talked about, you know, inspired, curious, unbossed culture. That’s the you know, cornerstone to the identity of novelty. As a country president, how do you personally bring this philosophy to life every day through your actions, through your interactions, or whatever you do as a leader?

Amitabh Dube: 19:43

Fantastic. Uh, my personal belief is our values, which are uh unboss inspired, curious, uh integrity, these are the values which are imbibed into our systems and processes. And uh leaders have to basically live them, show them, and uh uh uh uh work with work them out every every day. Uh and again it goes back to our uh starting with our purpose. We have seen that if associates are inspired and they start with the purpose, uh uh they feel more empowered, they work significantly, and that is driven again by the unbossed culture that the organization has of empowering and building trust with the organization. And that’s where leadership plays a very important uh role. When you ask about how do I work on these things, my first basic mantra has always been I work with a lot of trust with us with our with our team members, I create an atmosphere where curiosity flourishes, where where people are open to have and the dialogue, are open to take a bit of risk, where people uh uh uh keep asking a lot of why. Why am I doing this? Why is uh uh this happening? Build up a very open culture of dialogue in the uh in the organization, and most importantly, ensure that uh uh uh uh we feel very inspired by what we are doing as a as a culture and what impact we are trying to drive in the organization and in the in the uh uh ecosystem outside. Let me give you an example, correct? Whenever we have and how the system works, whenever we are launching a newer product in the in the country ecosystem, we have got a commercial team which works and we which goes out and talks about uh uh the product in the ecosystem of how we are we are uh bringing a newer product into the system and what impact it’s making on patients’ lives. But behind that are also team members who have worked in research, who have worked in development to ensure that that molecule becomes a medicine is done out in the in the market. That curiosity, that That openness, that uh uh uh showing the impact and going back and involving them, building that environment of collaboration, trust really helps us to ensure that our culture flourishes. And that culture of being unbossed, empowering teams to come together to work across really drives this whole organizational culture down the stream. So, in short, we we live this culture. Uh uh uh we encourage our employees to imbibe this uh uh culture, have that openness, work in a safe space, work in a curious space, work in a space where uh uh which inspires them on the purpose that we drive. But all of this, as I said earlier, what is non-negotiable is going to be integrity and compliance.

Balbir Singh: 22:45

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, uh again, but you have 9,000 associates. Okay. So how do you assess your leaders if they are able to build this kind of culture where they are empowering their teams? And how do you hold them accountable? You mentioned creating safe space, you know, safe space to experiment, safe space to innovate. It could be a lot of things. So, how do you assess your leaders and how do you hold them accountable?

Amitabh Dube: 23:10

Um let me start by saying that the best assessment happens in a team when you look at the team when things don’t go well, how the teams are responding in those situations is the best assessment of the leader and the teams working uh across Belgium. That doesn’t mean that I say that all most of the time we assess the leaders when things don’t go well. We assess we we do an assessment building upon how strong the foundation of the of the team is, how strong the foundation of trust, accountability, authenticity, and openness is uh uh uh in the in the team. Uh does the team feel empowered working with a uh uh uh with a leader uh across uh are they feeling strong to drive innovations that we are bringing in through research and development into the ecosystem uh uh uh externally? And most important, do they feel empowered and how do they reflect on the employees’ growth? Our leadership is always also driven not just by uh uh uh uh building teams, but building people and future leaders. So, are are we building future leaders within the team? So a lot of assessment happens uh uh uh when we look at are the teams building a culture of trust, are the teams feeling empowered, and are the leaders growing within the team? That’s a way how we assess how the leadership teams are working together.

Balbir Singh: 24:36

So when you say, you know uh a leader is tested when things are not going your way. But some of that I see is also a factor of are you building that psychological safety net for your team to try to fail? Uh and then, of course, then saying that this is an honest mistake, but this is a culture that we have built. Uh, so if you can share one or two examples, if possible, uh, how do you see that playing out and how have you seen someone who failed, failed, and then finally you know became a leader that people look up to?

Amitabh Dube: 25:18

Again, something which is very important. So let me let me start by the point that you said earlier. We strongly believe at Novartis that we need to build up a uh a psychological safe place for employees to work in. And also an inclusive space, correct? We believe that uh uh uh inclusive culture starts with a culture of uh belonging. Yeah, and and when you look at today, in a company like Novartis, where we have got 9,000 people in India, they’ve got generational diversity, we have got gender diversity, uh we have uh tenure diversity, we have got experience diversity, we have got role diversity. In such a such a vast diverse ecosystem, if we don’t have a sense of belonging, if we don’t have an inclusive culture, it’s very difficult to then work here together as a as a team. From a belonging perspective, if you go further down, it’s also equally important that we create a safe space where people can speak up. An environment in an organization where we can discuss, we can debate, we can reflect together uh uh um while remaining connected to our clear uh purpose. And that’s why psychological safety becomes a very, very, very important part. To give an example, I don’t want to go exactly into people and and and areas into this, but just to give you an example, uh, we always reflect every quarter of the things that our teams have done, uh, what went well, what did not go well. And uh uh over a period of time, we have seen that people have started coming and discussing more about a project that went well, a project that did not go well, a project where we quickly looked at the learnings, how we pivoted the examples. And some of the clear ones are very fundamental, is we are adopting a lot of digital and AI uh uh uh system into the organization, reaching out to patients, reaching out to uh uh uh uh uh stakeholders in the ecosystem. And that requires a lot of agility, correct? And not everything is going to work. But as long as teams are able to come up, regularly discuss, share feedbacks, debate, not be afraid of sharing that this didn’t go well and that didn’t went well. I feel that there is a strong amount of uh uh encouragement of a psychological space. And that’s one of the examples that we went onto a project which we started with. What we started with and where we are today has pivoted significantly, and that pivot has happened because of the risk taking that the team has done, because of constant learning that the team has done, and because of constant agility that the team has shown in moving away from things that did not work to making it things that work. Many times we struggle when we don’t take fast actions. So the team continues to work on things knowing it’s not working, but they don’t feel safe to speak up because uh uh they are they’re afraid of certain things. That’s something that we are going away from, and that’s the culture that we are trying to build where people feel safe to speak up. We tried it, didn’t work, we have pivoted, we have now moved into a newer, newer direction. So I think that space that we are trying to create as a psychologically safe  space for people to speak, debate, discuss is something that’s helping us as an organization and something which is a core to our culture.

Balbir Singh: 28:26

You know, all of this that you know uh you are building at Novartis, and we have been working uh with Novartis for the last few years, and Novartis recently also got one of the best workplaces in Asia. Uh, what does that mean for you for you? And uh what is it that some of your employees told you or said about this, you know, that moved you and you or you said that you made you really, really proud?

Amitabh Dube: 28:49

So, Balbir, first of all, thank you so much for the recognition from uh Great Place to Work. It means a lot for us as an organization. It validates our journey that we have been on. Uh, it’s not just that uh we want a great place to work, a workplace, we really want the employees uh uh feel that great place to work. And and such validation coming from 90% of our employees who say that no artists is a great place to work in Asia means a lot. More important is not just this recognition, more important are the stories of the employees behind this uh uh uh recognitions. The fact that employees have said that they feel uh trusted, uh that the employers uh uh value their freedom. Uh they have talked a lot about our unbossed culture. It’s something that as at the core of No Artists, we feel very, very proud uh uh uh about the purpose that Noatis has always been very, very strong with uh has developed that emotional connection with our associates. It’s something that has been also very, very popular, uh uh uh has been very supportive for us as a great place uh uh to work. Employees take pride in working for us as an organization, employees feel very valued working for an organization, and as a result, this testimony which came up from Great Place to Work and as being one of the Asia’s uh uh best companies also to work means significantly to us. It also shows that that our employees value our culture, employees uh uh uh feel very, very proud to be a part of Novartis.

Balbir Singh: 30:29

And if I may ask, how have you used the insights that come from some of this research and studies into uh you know the culture building or the interventions that you are you know planning at Novartis?

Amitabh Dube: 30:42

Very clear. So, Balbir, we we have been very, very um intentional in ensuring that what comes out from Great Place to Work uh process is not something which is like a one-time feedback. It’s a continuous feedback that we uh do. It is very similar to like we have some internal processes where every quarter we get feedback from my associates and we continue to work on them. So similarly, we use uh uh great place to work as a constant factor for us to keep improving. One of the areas that we have uh uh there are basically three areas which we have taken as a strong feedback from the surveys that has come in. One is to strengthen uh fairness and transparency. Uh, we got a lot of feedback that our processes need to be more transparent, uh, there needs to be a more of a feedback mechanism for our associates, uh, there needs to be a clear criteria, there needs to be enough more of communication to the associates. And that is something that we have as an organization have taken back and we are trying to work to build it up. That we have we strengthen our uh transparency, we strengthen our processes, and we respond back to employees with the feedback uh mechanism. The second, we have also got a lot of feedback about our manager capabilities, and manager plays a very important role in building the culture of the organization, being a catalyst in the in the uh uh organization. So we are spending a lot of time as an organization working together to bring up across the various uh uh uh units that we have, the how do we strengthen managers’ capability? What are the interventions that we uh uh need to put in? Uh how can managers play a bigger role uh in um in uh uh creating the right culture in the organization? And most important for a new employer coming in, uh how can you have the best uh employee experience? Because a lot depends on the manager, how the employer experience happens for an employer. So those are these are the areas. And the third areas where we are uh uh uh building in is changing a bit more from a leadership perspective. We are moving from an organization which uh we are moving to an organization which is more of a listening organization. So we purposely ask our leaders to listen more to what associates are are saying and also talk, look at the the well-being of the associates. And this is the feedback that we got that that uh we should listen more, we should look at the at the associates’ well-being. And we have got various programs that we are working across uh different units, which are on the well-being of the associates. So a lot of this comes from the feedback that we get from the great places to work, and these are areas where we continuously work on the improvements. So I’ve given you three examples that we have taken from the survey to for the areas to work on.

Balbir Singh: 33:20

Yeah, and I think you know, uh managers as a catalyst is something that we are seeing across India, Inc., you know, uh working on the manager real capability because they are the ones who have to drive the teams, empower the teams, and ensure business results. So, you know, it’s good to hear the same uh from multiple leaders across India Inc. 

Balbir Singh: 33:39

I was reading about Novartis, and another thing that caught my eye, uh, Amitabh is catalyst to innovation. Uh, you know, very powerful statement, three words. And uh lot of leaders talk about innovation, a lot of people talk about creating a culture of innovation. Uh but how do you how does that pan out in India specifically for a global organization? And what is it that you do to create that you know culture of innovation or provide catalysts to innovation?

Amitabh Dube: 34:11

Novartis’s DNA is innovation. Correct. And and uh uh two two fundamental parts. When you look at it, a culture of curiosity is the fundamental for innovation. Innovation happens when people are curious, people ask a lot of why. They are they are super super engaged in getting something which is going to impact human uh uh uh life. So our belief is that if you are able to develop a culture which involves a strong amount of curiosity, we are becoming a catalyst to innovation, and that is something that we continue to do, uh uh Balbir, across the uh uh continuum. As a part of the commercial organization, we always keep encouraging people to be curious to look at new ways to do things. Innovation happens in labs, that’s where our scientists continue to work. Innovation happens in commercial output, where we continue to look at our processes and how we can be more efficient, uh happens in the new medicines that we bring in. So the curiosity of our associates are one of the strongest ways to uh uh uh drive innovation. The second part of the innovation that we call ourselves as a catalyst of innovation is to have a strong culture that attracts, develops, and retains our talent. And as a result, we have been very, very uh uh uh conscious to ensure that we have various programs which continue to innovate our talent from a from a uh a perspective of learning. As late as last uh two months, we are trying to develop the AI capabilities of all our talents, of our of all our associates across with multiple programs which are trying to build up. So being a catalyst of innovation is not just in labs, it is in processes, it’s in development of our talents, it’s uh across uh uh uh uh research and development. So as a company, we are ensuring that we are we are we are having the curious culture which drives across innovation in every part that we work in.

Balbir Singh: 36:23

Yeah. So basically, if I were to you know reframe and uh it’s basically you have to be intentional about it. And you said that in your previous reply, and this is something which is more holistic. Innovation cannot just happen in labs, it has to happen across the value chain of what you’re delivering. Now that leads to my next question is you know, we know Novartis at Sword’s one of the most famous uh innovation focused pharma companies. What do you see as the biggest opportunity and the biggest threat over the next decade?

Amitabh Dube: 36:58

The biggest opportunity that I see uh uh uh from an innovation perspective in India is, and I said this earlier, is the scale of talent that we have, the scale of opportunity from an ecosystem perspective uh uh uh that we have to drive innovation, and the scale at which we can impact uh the uh human life that occurs in India and also the economy advantage that we have. And how I answer that scale of talents, we have one of the biggest AI uh uh talents in India, we have one of the biggest scientific talents coming out from uh uh India that all is going to help us in innovate in the future. When I talk about the uh ecosystem, we have one of the biggest uh healthcare ecosystems uh uh uh existing, treating almost 1.4 billion uh uh people who are living in India. What we also look at uh uh going into the future is uh the opportunity that we have to impact uh human lives. In India, when you look at the human lives, our diseases are generally 10 years younger population, and that is going to be more of the working class population. So if we have got a healthier population, we have got a healthier economy, we are going to be more futuristic, we are going to grow well. But if you don’t have a healthy population, that’s gonna impact uh uh uh the economic uh out being. So we have got a huge amount of uh of things that is going to drive the healthcare innovations in India for the future. What can be one of the biggest derailers is going to be the pace at which policy reforms happen in India.

Balbir Singh: 38:35

Okay.

Amitabh Dube: 38:35

And how to explain this? The external ecosystem of innovation, new drugs coming in, new molecules coming in, new uh uh uh uh drug delivery systems coming in, new uh uh uh medicines coming in is much faster than the pace of reforms that happen in the country. So if we have to match with the innovation and to bring those innovations into the country and impact uh uh uh Indian uh uh uh uh ecosystem and patients, we need to match our policy reforms at the same pace at which innovation is happening globally.

Balbir Singh: 39:14

Great.

Balbir Singh: 39:14

Um you mentioned about artificial intelligence, AI, and how you have one of the biggest teams in India. So, how do you see AI data science shaping drug discovery? Because when I remember, I know when all of people started talking about AI, uh, one of the biggest challenges for AI to solve was you know faster drug discovery, and how can we you know solve some of the medical issues of the world? So, how do you see AI playing a role and how are you equipping your employees to work in an AI-augmented world?

Amitabh Dube: 39:48

So at Novartis, we are we are really trying to leverage the power of AI and power of AI in drug discovery, in clinical development, decision making, patients’ outcomes. And to answer your question, I will go into three elements. The first is how we are equipping our employees. I did talk about you this uh uh a few minutes back. We have recently, about two months ago, launched a whole program of empowering our uh uh associates with AI. It’s into three elements it’s bronze certification, silver certification, and gold certification, and we we ask all our employees and leaders to go through these learning experiences, thereby helping our associates to become more AI-learned, AI-enabled, uh, which is going to be helping them. The second way we keep looking at it is that they we look at system efficiency improvement. How can AI be enabling us to drive better efficiency in our own processes? How can we uh we we drive the AI help us to drive efficiency and save time so that we our associates can put the same time and utilize the same time in more other things which are going to more impact patients’ uh uh uh lives. The most important part is uh which I believe is going to happen, and we still have to see get some outcomes, is how AI is going to impact drug discoveries and uh and uh uh clinical development. There were some very strong prototypes on clinical development, which is shown that uh uh a use of AI can help you to fast-track clinical trials, can help you to fast-track patient enrollments, you know where sites are which will be faster enrolling patients so that you can shorten the time to bring newer drugs to the faith to the uh treatment. There’s a lot of work happening on drug discovery, but we still need to see the outcomes of drug discovery over the time. So, to sum this up, uh uh uh uh uh Balbir, I personally feel that there’s a strong role that AI will play in three elements. Clearly, drug discovery, but we still need to see the prototypes. Clinical development, we are already seeing how clinical trials are coming faster because of the use of AI. We are able to reach out to patients much higher faster clinical sites. We’ve already seen the efficiency in processes, in screening, in fasting the patients, uh reaching out to patients uh faster from a screening and other perspective, and we are seeing a lot of efficiency in the processes being driven through AI. So, AI at the end is gonna change the way we basically work, correct? Like computers, a couple of years changed the way we started working. Similarly, AI is going to change the work we work, and human empowered with AI knowledge are the best people who are going to succeed at this.

Balbir Singh: 42:32

Okay. So basically, apart from drug discovery, where a lot of work is happening, but it’s still to be tested, is you know, how is it going to fasten up the process? But clinical trials and process improvement is where you are already seeing the impact of AI. 

Balbir Singh: 42:46

Great. Now, I wanted to ask you something, questions about the leadership legacy that you want to live behind. Is first tell us about your daily discipline. How does it look like? You know, how does your day look like, and uh how does it help you uh stay true to your own uh philosophy that you have built over the last 30 years of what a leadership looks like?

Amitabh Dube: 43:11

My day starts a bit early. Okay, correct. And I’m a person who who is uh for quite a few years now, means almost a decade plus, has been very disciplined on the way I get up. Um my timings are perfect. I spend some time uh uh on reflections for my day. Uh I also prepare my notes of how what have been my learnings for the last uh uh couple of uh uh weeks and how I’ve been uh reflecting back on the things that have happened. Uh and then I come back to uh uh um my daily grind that comes in the office whilst you are there. I’m still a pro person who, although I started very technology driven, but when you look at it, I’m also a uh a person with a lot of hands written, handwritten notes and my discipline. Is to maintain my handwritten notes and key insights. So even while I’m talking to you, you will see I have got my handwritten notes uh uh uh um uh available available uh with me. I spend a lot of time on ensuring that I hear a lot of associates uh across uh Balbir and interact with a lot of associates in the organization and listening what they are doing, what they are working on, what is supporting them to grow, what is uh the culture that they are feeling in the organization, what are their uh uh uh high points, what are their uh low points in the in the organization, how has been their uh uh journey? So every day while work moving around, I interact uh uh with the associates. And finally, uh I’ve started giving a lot of importance to health and wellness, and I’ve also started encouraging associates to give importance to their health and uh and and wellness, and that requires a bit of more self-discipline to focus a bit more on yourself than focusing on just the work or the other elements do you do. So, during my conversation with associates, while I have started practicing it, I also have that conversation that how much time are you giving on your uh uh uh health and wellness? So, a bit of more discipline in my approach over a period of time has really helped me to be a more focused and an uh uh uh uh leader.

Balbir Singh: 45:26

So, from looking at your daily schedule to now taking a 20,000 feet view, what would be your advice to a young CEO who’s taking up uh the role of CEO for the first time or a business leader of a very big organization? And uh reflect on a few of the things that you just assume somebody should have told me this, you know, when I was getting into the country president role in Vietnam or you know, somewhere. And uh just reflect on some of those and what would be your advice to some of the new businesses.

Amitabh Dube: 45:59

Very good, very good question. And I wish somebody was there who could have guided me. But uh there are three or four points which I always tell people, younger people who are coming in into the stretch of arrows. The first one I tell the people is don’t get carried away by the size of opportunity. A lot of younger generation upcoming CEOs always look at oh, what’s the size of business, what’s the number of people, what is uh I always tell them that don’t look at the size of opportunity, look at what you can build with that opportunity that you are getting as a CEO. Correct? So that’s the first part I always tell uh people. Second thing I always tell uh people that embrace roles. And I loved a book which was uh uh um which I’ll talk I’m forgetting the name just now, hidden potential, sorry, hidden potential, which always tells about the growth happens when you move from comfortable area to uncomfortable area. And I always tell people embrace those roles that stretch you and move you out of your comfort zone because that’s what your growth is going to happen, whether you are a CEO or you are a senior leader, your growth is gonna happen if you’re going into a uh if you’re stretching yourself into an uncomfortable uh uh area. And third and the most important thing I always tell people don’t look at an illusion of a perfect role because you will never have a perfect role. Get a role which you are excited about and over a period of time make that into a perfect role because that’s the legacy that you leave behind in an organization when you move forward. So these are three elements which I always tell young people which are coming out. Don’t go with the size of opportunity, look at the size of opportunity you can build from a uh from a role. Uh, stretch yourselves into an uncomfortable area and don’t wait for a perfect role. Get a role and make that perfect as you grow.

Balbir Singh: 48:00

Okay, great advice. And uh size of the opportunity should not be a problem, and don’t wait for the perfect role.

Amitabh Dube: 48:09

And the second one was the third one was move into an area which is uncomfortable.

Balbir Singh: 48:14

Yeah, yeah.

Amitabh Dube: 48:15

Growth happens when you stretch yourself out from your comfort zone into an uncomfortable zone.

Balbir Singh: 48:19

Great, great, great.

Balbir Singh: 48:20

Now uh we step into a rapid fire section, Amitabh. And I’m just going to throw a few questions your way and give us a crisp short answer. That’s okay. I can be uh give us long answers, they always add wisdom. But uh so the first one, uh, you know, if I were to ask you, what’s that one word that describes your leadership style? Impactful and purposeful leader. Impactful and purposeful leader, and um a book that has shaped your leadership thinking.

Amitabh Dube: 48:54

Um I already talked about a book, but I would like to talk about two books.

Balbir Singh: 48:59

Okay.

Amitabh Dube: 48:59

Um, I I read a lot of books, uh uh uh uh Balbir, and each book has some or the other way helped me in my leadership journey at different phases. Correct. The two which I’m talking about just now are the ones which have been impacted in the last six to eight months. The first one was the one I talked about hidden potential from Adam uh uh uh uh Grant. And why I believe this book is very important is that it argues that long-term success is driven less by innate talent and more by character, deliberate learning, resilience, and ability to continuously improve. And it tells you that you really grow as a leader if you move out from your comfort zone into your uncomfort zone. So I love this book, Hidden Potential, by Adam Grant. This was one of the latest uh ones which I read. And the second one which I read was uh James Clare’s Atomic Habit. Yeah, and that’s another one which I love because that book tells you very clearly that consistent improvement in your daily habits, which is very difficult because if I try to practice it, it’s not something that consistent improvement in your daily habits uh can compound over time and produce significant amount of change, which you cannot drive in a short period of time.

Balbir Singh: 50:18

Yes. And um both great books, and I’ve read both of them. Uh so good to know I’m in the right company, or rather a great company. Uh so you know, you shared your wisdom with young leaders, a leader that inspired you when you were growing, uh, could be from the business community, could be outside the business community, but leader that inspired you and why?

Amitabh Dube: 50:44

There’s only one example. I’m I’ve always been very inspired by my father.

Balbir Singh: 50:48

Okay.

Amitabh Dube: 50:50

And uh uh uh uh and the reason why I say is I’ve seen my father uh um and I I hope I can replicate the he’s been always a person of strength. Okay, and a strength which you don’t feel. I mean it’s not like that you have to say that I am behind you, but you always felt somebody very strong behind you, driving you with a force to go ahead, even with uh uh when you felt a bit uncomfortable or you felt and I’ve seen him his own leadership style go through good times, bad times, how calmly he handled it, how he grew up in his professional uh career, but also how he supported us throughout. So, if somebody has to give an example is it’s going to be always my father. He’s been a role model for me, he’s been a source of inspiration for me, he’s been a driving force for me, and he’s been a person who I always felt like a support. And that’s the person I want to be in the organization, but you don’t have to be with in in front of people to feel that support, but they always know that there is a strong support behind you with somebody existing.

Balbir Singh: 51:59

Tell us your father’s name.

Amitabh Dube: 52:00

My father’s name was Professor J N Dube, Janvee Narayan Dube. He was professor in mechanical engineering and he was dean of Banaras in the University.

Balbir Singh: 52:08

He’s ITBHU.

Amitabh Dube: 52:09

ITBHU uh uh alumni, and uh uh uh uh he’s always going to be with us. We lost him a couple of uh months back, but he’s always gonna be with us.

Balbir Singh: 52:18

Okay, no, no. Uh thank you for sharing that, I think. Uh uh, and no wonder you also take a lot of your inspiration and uh the feel that you picked up, definitely from your father. And uh as leader, we take a lot of decisions. Leadership is about taking decisions and providing clarity to your team, and you touched upon that providing clarity topic a bit. What was one of the difficult decisions that you had to take as a leader?

Amitabh Dube: 52:47

We always take as leaders have to take certain decisions which are always going to be the difficult one. The most difficult was when I came back from Vietnam to uh um India and was and at that point of time we were stuck with the decision to take what’s what is right. What is right, choosing between a right organization which is going to be helpful for long-term success, or choosing between an organization which is going to be comfortable for short term. Yeah, and that is something, if you ask me, was one of the most toughest uh discussions because it required a lot of change management, it required change in the organizational structure. And uh uh uh you have to think a lot because we generally come as leaders and you’re looking at a five to ten years horizon for a long-term uh sustainability. And we and and and that I I’m happy. Um, and and I want to share this that I got a lot of feedback on this decision from my uh my my leadership team members. They helped me a lot to take this tougher decision. But at the time at uh at that time we took a decision that it may be uncomfortable.

Balbir Singh: 54:02

So, Amitabh, tell me one thing that you believe about the future of work that many will not agree with you.

Amitabh Dube: 54:09

Uh we hear a lot of things these days, uh uh, that people are talking to invest in technology, invest in AI. Uh I believe it’s important. I strongly, strongly believe that investment in technology is important. But I also believe it is not over and above investment in human capital. Knowledge and human capital will still be the driving force. And I I strongly believe and I believe that a lot of people don’t believe in that. They say that technology is the way forward and the investments in technology is more than human capital. My belief is the other way around. You invest in technology, I’m not saying don’t invest, but also invest equally or more on the human capital.

Balbir Singh: 54:49

Yeah, great.

Speaker: 54:50

No, that’s good to know.

Balbir Singh: 54:51

And we are seeing more and more articles come on that thought now. Uh, people are burning their fingers with some of these initial experiments. Uh, next question I wanted to ask you what is that one question that you wish more CEOs would ask themselves? Uh loudly, in their head, wherever. Uh, what’s that one question that you think more CEOs should ask?

Amitabh Dube: 55:15

I think I think as CEOs and and and uh uh uh leaders, there are three elements that we should ask ourselves more. Correct. Whichever domain we are in, correct? What’s the impact that we are creating as individual leaders and as an organization into the ecosystem that we have? The second question that we should ask ourselves a more lot is are we building future leaders in our organizations who can drive the ecosystem and who can drive organizations and take them to greater heights? And the third one, which is how strongly are we connected with our purpose?

Balbir Singh: 55:58

Okay, great impact ecosystem and connection with the purpose. Last one, complete this sentence for me in one or two lines.

Amitabh Dube: 56:07

A great workplace is a great workplace, is a place where people feel trusted, okay, inspired, valued, and connected to the purpose, bigger than themselves.

Balbir Singh: 56:23

Awesome. Great, thank you. Thank you, Amitabh, for this uh unabridged version of your thoughts and sharing all of this uh with us, and uh, I am sure people who listen to this will be uh left with a lot of insights and a lot of takeaways. Thank you.

Amitabh Dube: 56:41

Thank you so much, Balbir, for this very, very interesting discussion. I was very honored to be here with you on this podcast, and thank you for also asking me some challenging questions.

Balbir Singh: 56:51

Oh, great, always a pleasure. Thank you.